When young Black musicians gaze upon the orchestra stage, they are unlikely to see themselves reflected. In the orchestral field, only 2.1 percent of players are Black. The Alliance of Black Orchestral Percussionists, or ABOP, seeks to change this.

CEO Raynor Carroll formed ABOP in 2021, alongside six of his colleagues—Timothy Adams, Jr., Douglas Cardwell, Michael Crusoe, Jauvon Gilliam, Joshua Jones, and Johnny Lee Lane—out of a need to support young Black orchestral percussionists. Based in Los Angeles, the mentorship program offers one-on-one lessons, masterclasses, workshops, performance opportunities, equipment, and financial assistance for their “protégés”—students of all ages spread out across the United States. The organization also offers ABOP-in-LA, a weeklong summer intensive that gathers all protégés in one space. There, students rehearse and read through repertoire with an orchestra.

ABOP’s skillful protégés are currently mentored by three Black musicians: Carroll (retired principal percussionist for LA Philharmonic), Terry McKinney (principal percussionist for the Baton Rouge Symphony Orchestra), and Wesley Sumpter (freelance percussionist). But this program goes beyond the practical elements of music education, as Carroll says: “We want to develop the whole person. It’s not just about music.”

Recently, I had the pleasure of (virtually) sitting down with Carroll, age sixty-seven, and ABOP protégé Torrance Buntyn Jr., twenty-four, to learn more about the organization. Music has always been the guiding light of my life, so I am deeply appreciative to have been able to interview two musicians whose passion and drive has led them to lead a life of mentorship and community building. A percussionist in the Atlanta area, Buntyn recently graduated with a master of music in percussion performance from Southern Methodist University in Dallas, Texas. As the oldest protégé at ABOP, Buntyn has taken on the role of a “big brother” to younger protégés, offering them the guidance and support that ABOP provided him as one of the inaugural students.

The Alliance of Black Orchestral Percussionists will be featured at the 2025 Smithsonian Folklife Festival, part of the program Youth and the Future of Culture. ABOP will perform an evening concert on Sunday, July 6, with the DC Youth Orchestra, hold percussion workshops, and contribute to narrative sessions at the Festival. This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

How did ABOP come to be, and how did you get involved?

Carroll: It happened towards the end of COVID. I got six other colleagues of mine together from across the [United] States who are all principal players in orchestras—and that, in itself, is amazing to have seven Black principals in orchestras. It’s a rarity. We got together on Zoom, and we talked about who we are, what we’ve done, how we got here. And I said, you know, [these are] fantastic, amazing careers that we’ve all had.

But I thought collectively, together we could do something even more powerful, and that is to develop and start this mentorship program. So, that’s basically how we got started. It took several months for us to go through all the red tape to be a nonprofit. We started the actual program in 2022, and Torrance was one of our first protégés.

Buntyn: One of the founders is Timothy Adams Jr. He’s the chair of percussion at the University of Georgia in Athens. I was doing my master’s audition, and after my audition, he told me to look up ABOP. I immediately knew that this was a program that I was meant to be in.

Coming from a background in school where resources were not abundant, I’ve always tried to find ways outside of school to get access to the things that I need for my career. ABOP was one of those things. I had never seen a group of Black percussionists helping young Black percussionists gain access to things that they didn’t have when they were coming up.

I think the overall goal of the organization is to just help orchestras become more inclusive in every aspect. And ABOP adds to that, it adds to that accessibility and adds to that awareness and exposure that a lot of people in the Black community may not have. That’s what drew me to ABOP.

How do you both think ABOP embodies the Festival’s theme of Youth and the Future of Culture?

Carroll: Oh, that’s easy! ABOP is focused on youth. And specifically, we’re focused on changing the culture of orchestral Western European classical music, which started off, you know, as white men playing in wigs. It wasn’t until the recent history of classical orchestras, in the past maybe fifty years that [classical orchestras] started to let white women in. That was a big deal. And it still is.

It’s been a long process, but this is what ABOP is about. It’s about the youth and changing this culture since classical music has not been a part of African American culture. Yes, we have had players over the years, but not many. What we’re doing as Black percussionists is educating youth in our community who may not have known about this path of classical music. It is something you can do, and there are many benefits to it.

We’re showing protégés what this career really entails. For example, they love video games and, typically, there’s an orchestra playing those soundtracks. I think that fits in very well with the theme of Youth and the Future of Culture. We’re trying to make a difference where, gradually, over time, [orchestra] will become a part of our culture. I think we are in the age of enlightenment where nothing is beyond us. We can do whatever we want to do. We just have to do it.

How has ABOP helped with your formation of your sense of self?

Buntyn: I actually do come from a family of percussionists—not necessarily classical or orchestral musicians, but my granddad played the drums in a band. My great granddad was a DJ. My uncle, aunt, and dad all played percussion in school. I have some singers in my family, as well. So, music was never something new to me.

The one thing that was new to me was the field of orchestra. I didn’t have this information when I was coming of age. A lot of people in the field get bred to become classical musicians. I didn’t really get introduced to orchestra until 2020, that COVID year, when we all had time to think about what we want in our lives and what truly brings us joy. I was looking through different careers, [thinking] how can I keep performing? How can I keep practicing and also make it a living? And orchestra was one of those things that just made sense.

I changed my whole career path from becoming a band director to an orchestral percussionist. ABOP introduced me to the work that needs to be put in to, not just become an orchestral musician but to becoming a musician. I always recognize myself as a musician first. I’m also a percussionist. My philosophy is that you have to learn how to be a musician before you can get into anything in percussion. I’ve learned how to become a musician through ABOP. [I’ve learned] how much it takes, how much you have to sacrifice, how much work, mentally, you have to put in for the career itself.

ABOP has also allowed me to learn more about myself as a Black man who is on track for this career. It’s definitely a different experience, a different path than most people [pursuing a career in orchestra], and with ABOP, I was able to have personal conversations about what I was going through. Whether that was in school or in life, I [felt] comfortable to come to someone who has a similar background and experiences, and that helped me see the light of my future much, much brighter. The conversations I was having at that time were conversations that my mentors wish they had had when I was their age.

It’s amazing just to see this, an older generation trying to help a younger generation and help them make a leap in this world. Douglas [Cardwell, my mentor] literally flew out from New Mexico to Texas just to give me lessons for two days. That type of sacrifice, that type of dedication means a lot. I’m going to be doing the exact same thing for the younger generation once I get to a level where I’m retired, or I get the things that I need to become that type of mentor and role model for other younger musicians.

Carroll: You’re already doing it! You’re already doing it, man. Take some credit.

Buntyn: Yeah, I’ll take some credit.

Carroll: You’re already teaching, right? You have students, right? Okay, so I just wanted to clarify that. You’re on the path, you know?

Buntyn: Yes. I’m doing that right now, but I wouldn’t be where I’m at right now without the help of my mentors.

Carroll: Same thing with your students. They wouldn’t be where they are without what you’re doing, you know?

Buntyn: Yeah, that’s true. That’s what I love about ABOP. We’re not only just a mentorship program, but we’re building a community. We’re building access. We’re having conversations that people normally wouldn’t have every day; those tough conversations that are needed to cultivate change. ABOP has allowed me to just be myself.

Raynor, how has mentorship with ABOP developed you as a musician and as a person overall?

Carroll: I’ve always said that one of the best things a player can do is teach, because at that point you have to express, explain what you do, how you do it to the student, and it must make sense. Therefore, you analyze yourself as a musician, what you do, how you’re doing it. Is it logical or am I just doing what my teacher told me to do? To me, that’s not a good reason. There should be a reason behind what we do.

Mentoring continues to inspire me. It’s now become a passion. I get as much out of mentoring as I do performing on stage. It is inspiring for me to have a protégé like Torrance and all of the other protégés that we have in the program, and to see that light go on with them where they just get it, they understand, and they get that feeling inside that’s indescribable. You can call it love, you can call it passion, whatever—it’s just great to share that and to see them grow.

I use the analogy of an elevator, where you get on at the first floor. Perhaps someone’s in the elevator with you. Let’s say it’s me, a Black man. And we guide you. We guide you up to the top. We stop at each floor, and each floor gives you a little info on this instrument and that music. Okay, you’ve learned that. Now you go to the next floor, et cetera, et cetera, until you get to the top. At the top, the door opens, and there’s the orchestra. You’ve learned all the repertoire, you’ve done all this, that, but now you’re ready to go out. And you go out into that room, and you make your life there.

Then the important thing: when you’re done, as in when you’re retired, you punch that button on the elevator, and you go back down. And you have that door open on the first floor, and you wait for someone else to come in, then you guide them up like that too. That’s the ideal.

And that’s what I see in ABOP’s mentorship program, that we’re not just training to be orchestral musicians. We’re training for the community, for life, for how to guide, how to be a mentor. It doesn’t say that in our application, but that’s what we really want.

So, Torrance, you’re almost there. But don’t forget to go back down.

What do you want the world to know about percussion that’s not very well known?

Carroll: I think it’s in part that it is actually very difficult to rise to this level. Torrance can tell you that, whether it’s developing your sound on the triangle—who would think you spent hours, weeks, years developing your triangle technique? Really, I think that’s what I would love. I would love to tell people that percussion—if you think it looks easy, great. But in essence, it takes a lot of work for each and every instrument we play. From snare drum, timpani, mallets, xylophone, glockenspiel, congas, bongos, you name it, they all require a different technique. And if you’re a drummer, it doesn’t mean you can play them. There is a lot that goes into studying percussion.

Buntyn: It’s a lot of traveling and networking with people who have the instruments you need until you can save up money to buy these big instruments that cost thousands and thousands of dollars, especially the good ones, to own so that you can practice effectively at home for auditions or other projects.

Another thing that I wanted to clear up is that people typically look over [percussionists] in the orchestra, and I don’t know why. We don’t just “hit stuff.” We hit things with musical intent. We all have to develop our musical senses just as much as a violinist would. Typically, we’re not just looking at our part; we’re looking at everybody else’s part and how our instrument fits in with another part in the orchestra. It’s a lot of mental toughness that you have to build up to become a fully trained classical musician in percussion.

It is very difficult. Very difficult. Very difficult, actually. I just want to make sure you put that in there!

*****

Continue this conversation, support ABOP’s performance, and engage in community with Carroll and Buntyn this summer at the Smithsonian Folklife Festival.

Morgan Joiner is a curatorial intern at the Smithsonian Folklife Festival and a graduating senior at Howard University majoring in history with a minor in Africana studies.